Psychodrama, Play & Parenting Support with Psychotherapist, Ioana Chei

Ever wished you could step outside your family dynamic, watch it play out, and change the ending? That’s the magic of psychodrama: acting out relationships and inner conflicts to see them clearly and rehearse healthier ways of responding. We sit down with licensed psychotherapist and mindset coach Ioana Chei to explore how role‑play, play therapy and mindful language help kids and parents move from reactivity to connection.

We unpack the Oaklander model, a child‑centred approach that uses play, art and creative expression to surface emotions kids can’t always name. Ioana explains why older children start to “own the play,” spotting themselves in stories and choosing new scripts. We talk candidly about the belief that keeps many parents stuck (“this is just how I am”) and how to replace fixed identity with flexible skills. You’ll learn why all feelings are allowed but behaviours are guided, how to notice when your reaction is bigger than the situation, and a simple way to map the “buttons” you brought into parenting long before your child arrived.

We also address the lingering effects of lockdowns on social development, especially for children who missed key practice years. Expect practical ideas for gentle exposure, short structured playdates, and debriefs that build confidence without pressure. Along the way, we share real moments about modelling self‑talk and body image, and how a small shift in the words you use about yourself can reshape what your child believes about theirs.

If you’re ready for tools you can use today, start with two: listen more than you lecture and choose presence over perfection with ten minutes of child‑led play. You can follow Ioana on Instagram at @ioanachei or email her at help@ioanachei.com for further information.

Chapters

• 0:39 Welcome & Guest Introduction
• 1:45 What Is Psychodrama?
• 3:16 The Oaklander Model Explained
• 4:03 Why I Chose This Work
• 5:46 Working With Kids And Parents
• 7:02 Play As Emotional Processing
• 8:36 What Holds Parents Back?
• 9:23 It’s Okay To Feel Anything
• 10:42 “Buttons” And Triggers In Parenting
• 13:21 Post‑Lockdown Social Gaps In Kids
• 17:04 Two Practical Steps For Parents
• 21:50 Modelling Self‑Talk And Body Image
• 24:06 Choosing Presence Over Perfection
• 24:55 Where To Find Ioana & Closing

Transcript

Mel Schenker:Welcome back to another episode of Beyond Organised. I have Ioana Chei here. She is a licensed psychotherapist and mindset coach. She mainly works with psychologists, but in a private practice, she works with children and their parents. She's also trained in psychodrama, mindset coaching, and the Oaklander model. And she is also based in Romania. So thank you so much for coming Ioana. Lovely to have you.

Ioana Chei:Thank you, Mel, for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Mel Schenker:It's so lovely to have you here. And I'm really curious as to what it is you do, the whole psychodrama, all this stuff, please tell me and the audience a little bit more about yourself.

Ioana Chei:Well, psychodrama is a really interesting part of my work. It's my main training as a psychotherapist and it's a therapeutic method where the people act out their inner world, their struggles, their relationships. And it's like putting everything on a stage is just not on a stage, it's in the practice, right? And that way they get to see themselves from outside, they get to see themselves more clearly, release their emotions and get to have new and healthier ways of relating to themselves and to the people around them.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah, okay. So is it kind of like they get to see it from a different perspective as well, like, and then they might get their own revelations from that going, I didn't see it that way. Like, is it that kind of thing? Cool.

Ioana Chei:Definitely, yes. Exactly. Yeah, they even get to act different people in their lives, right? What would they say? How would they see things? And it really brings a new way of seeing life and seeing the difficulties.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're really putting yourself in someone else's shoes then so you're really having to think about who they are what they're going through all their emotions too that you might not have considered before that is so cool. I just didn't realize that was the thing and you mentioned the Oaklander model what is that?

Ioana Chei:Yes, that's another therapeutic approach. This approach is focused on children. It's founded by Violet Oaklander. And this approach uses play and art and creative expression for the kids. And I use it with adults too, because it really works, magic.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, we're big kids.

Ioana Chei:Yeah. And they get to express their emotions, understand their emotions and integrate everything so that they get a better contact with themselves and bring everything to a whole.

Mel Schenker:Awesome. What an interesting career that you have, that you've chosen. That's so cool. So what inspired you to do what you do?

Ioana Chei:Hahaha! Well, you know how people say like 70% of the students that go to psychology go there because they have their own issues. It's probably true. I used to be a teenager, like all teenagers that felt misunderstood, that felt different.

Mel Schenker:Yes.

Ioana Chei:Different from my family, different from other teenagers. And my brother, for example, he was older and he was also a teenager, but he would teenage differently than I was. And somehow I got myself into this role of, okay, if people understand me or I can't feel that they understand me, I will be the one who understands them.

Mel Schenker:Good on you.

Ioana Chei:And I got to see behind the words, behind the behavior and see people for who they are and accept the people that are different, you know, having that way of being in life. So starting from there, I thought psychology is a great way to explore that even more, that side of myself. And the more I understood about myself, the more I understood about others, the more I loved it. And yeah, I found that it suits me and I love what I do. So I continued.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, good on you. Wow, that is so good. You mentioned, well, I introduced you in saying that you help children and their parents. Is that what you mainly do now, is your private practice?

Ioana Chei:Yes, I work in my private practice. I started working with children in public schools and then I migrated to my private practice because I thought I can do more and get to parents better and easier. And I did that. So I actually have sessions one on one with kids and I bring their parents into parental counseling and into the psychotherapy process whenever is necessary. Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Awesome. Besides the Oaklander model, Is there sort of a way that you go about helping these children?

Ioana Chei:Well, we play a lot. And it's fun that they always ask me, and what do you do for a living? Because you can't do this. You play all the time, right?

Mel Schenker:Yeah, that's good. Kids are so funny aren't they?

Ioana Chei:And with the little kids, we play and that's how they process all the emotions and everything that happens in their lives. And we change the script in the play. And with older kids, we get to a point where we play, but they also own the play. And what happens into the play, it's usually the inside of the kid, right? It's always something from inside that comes out to play. And the older kids have the ability to look at their play and say, hmm, this does sound like me. And I can see myself into in this. Not always, but a lot of the times they do that. And when they own that, they get a chance to change little by little.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. So what do you feel is sort of the main thing that holds these kids back or the parents back when there's difficulties in coaching them along?

Ioana Chei:It's a vast question, but what comes to mind first is about the parents because us adults are more stuck in our ways than kids are. Yeah. And one of the things that I find that stops parents from changing the way they relate to their kids or the way they do things is this thought that this is how I am and I can't change. Right? I'm, I don't know, for example, I'm just this person that acts out and screams, this is who I am, right?

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah.

Ioana Chei:And it's not that they don't want to change, but sometimes they don't even stop to wonder, could I change?

Mel Schenker:Yeah, is there something different that I could actually do? Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Yeah. And when I asked them, is there another way for you? Can you change? It's like, that's when they stop and think, huh, what if there's another way to this? And what if I could do this a different way? Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. That's really good. What is perhaps one thing that you would like the listeners to know about what you do that you feel could help them as parents? Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Hmm. I think the most important and what comes up the most in my work with kids and with parents is that I want them all to know that it's okay to feel whatever you feel. If it's anger, if it's fear, if it's sadness, it's okay. It's perfectly fine to feel anything you feel.

Ioana Chei:Because one of the main struggles for these kids is that they feel like they're not allowed to feel all these emotions, especially anger, right? That's the worst one. And for parents is the same, right? I got angry and screamed at my kid. Why did I get angry? I don't want to feel angry.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah, it's naughty. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Ioana Chei:It's okay to feel angry. Let's change the screaming, but...

Ioana Chei:Yeah. So I think that's the most important thing that they can, if they can allow themselves to feel anything they feel, even those emotions, will dissipate slowly. Yeah, they accepted me, says the emotion. And so I can, I did my job.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, fair enough. So you-

Mel Schenker:Yeah, so if a parent is feeling angry towards their child, so just say they've got a toddler and that they've been pushing their buttons all day and they're ready to crack it, what would your advice be?

Ioana Chei:Well, first we process it in our session because parents need some processing too. Because those buttons, that's for one. Sometimes they're not aware of these buttons. Where did they come from? Did the kid put them there or did I have them? Yeah, the kid has no buttons.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, need someone to talk to, to get it out. Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Hmm. Yeah, good question.

Ioana Chei:They don't come with buttons and they don't put buttons on us. We have those buttons. And before the kid, we didn't actually touch the buttons. No one touched the buttons and we thought we're fine. We're perfect. And then we get to see these and they're uncomfortable. And we say the kid did it.

Mel Schenker:Yeah!

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yep.

Ioana Chei:But it's actually something from way back and we need to look at it in order to understand it's not about the kid or the behavior. And whenever the reaction is way bigger than the actual situation, and we need to look at that and see what happened there. What was the belief? What was going on that made you react like that. And once you're aware of everything, that becomes easier to manage.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, no that's really good.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, definitely. I think, I think, even in what I do, once you bring something to light, then it no longer has control over you. It's, it's like this, I don't know, this thing that just hides in the shadows and it's constantly eating away at you. And you know, then you're stuck with the guilt or the anger or whatever else. But as soon as it comes to light, it loses its power.

Mel Schenker:That's what I find. And even just as a coach, I'm not a medical professional. I'm not a psychologist or anything like that. But even just as a coach, I find if we can get things out into the light, we can get it out into the open. Then a lot of the time we look at it ourselves and we go, oh, I think I blew that out of proportion. I think I might have overreacted. Oh, that sounds a little bit silly. Like we have our own.

Mel Schenker:We all respond differently, but a lot of the time, even just hearing it out loud, we just go, oh, how is that it? I got so worked up over that. So, yeah.

Ioana Chei:Yeah, definitely. It's different when you look at it from a cold place, let's say, when everything chills and you can see things more objectively. Not 100% objective, but...

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think that's so good. I think what you do, I think especially since COVID and all of that, I'm guessing your demand has increased. Things have really changed for you in the last few years.

Ioana Chei:It has, that is true because we live in communities and we were...

Ioana Chei:Well, I can't find the word for it. Yeah, isolated, separated from our peers and our community. And it was hard. And we

Mel Schenker:Isolated? Yeah. Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Well, especially the kids developed different anxieties and different difficulties that they need support with. And their parents sometimes they don't know what to do because there's no manual for the parents.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, I know. I wish. I know I'm struggling a little bit, particularly with my child who is seven now, but when COVID started, like he turned three, so he was two when COVID started and he missed his third birthday because we were in lockdowns here. And then he missed his fourth birthday because we're also in lockdowns.

Mel Schenker:I'm in Melbourne, Victoria. We had the longest lockdowns in the world. So we were isolated a very long time, but I noticed with him in particular, he's a beautiful boy and he can make friends like that really. But at same time, he is struggling a lot more socially. And I do think a big part of it was because of those formative years, he was isolated. He just had his older brother really, and that was it. So,

Mel Schenker:I'm definitely seeing that and we're having to deal with that now because we couldn't really deal with it then, but we're noticing it now and we're really having to do something about it just to help get him back on track and know how to behave in a way that is good for society and that as well and help him process things because he does get a bit overwhelmed at times being around a lot of people that because

Mel Schenker:when he was little, he was told to stay away from people. And so now it's like, I'm allowed to be around people. There's just, yeah. So we have to deal with a lot. Do you see things like that too, where kids are dealing with one way of living now that was different to how they were living just a few years ago?

Ioana Chei:Exactly.

Ioana Chei:They are and it can be confusing, My kid, for example, of course, he's more of an introvert, but he likes his space and he accepted the lockdown. I can get... Me too.

Mel Schenker:Mm-hmm.

Mel Schenker:Loved it.

Mel Schenker:That's great!

Ioana Chei:We get time for ourselves, we get space.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, nobody's gonna just drop over unannounced. Well, I could take my time.

Ioana Chei:Yeah, definitely. But yeah, they miss something, right? In two years, that's a lot of time. And they miss the opportunities to build these abilities in social life. And they adapt easily and they can process that it was like that and now it's different. But

Mel Schenker:Great.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Yeah, if they have that lack of time to build abilities, that's them. Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, we'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I guess the way he processes is still very like black and white, you know? So it's still very like, but we can now, but we can't before. So it's still, I think for him, it's just taking him a little bit longer to catch up. But my younger kids that didn't really live through that are fine, you know? So.

Mel Schenker:It's just every kid is different, every kid processes differently and I'm sure you see it child after child, they're all so different. So what is one small step that people can do towards helping their children if they see that their child needs help with anything?

Ioana Chei:I think a big one is.

Ioana Chei:Helping them in any way. I got stuck to the last

Mel Schenker:Yeah, like whether it's get, where it's like get professional help or you just listen to them or like just any kind of help.

Ioana Chei:There are two things I think that come to mind right now. One is yes, listen to the child and don't think you know everything just because you're an adult. Listening is a skill that we don't use enough with our kids. We're used to

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yes. Yep.

Ioana Chei:Talk a lot, to teach a lot, impart the wisdom, but not to listen. And if we listen, they will talk. If we talk, they will just listen or not and just keep what they have to say to themselves. And listening, yeah, it's number one.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, they'll do their own thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Close your mouth and listen to what the kid has to say and I learned so much by just doing that and paying attention to what comes from them.

Mel Schenker:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yep, I agree.

Ioana Chei:Yeah. And another is paying attention to the way we talk. But the way we talk to them and to ourselves.

Mel Schenker:Okay, yep.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yes, yes, that is a big one.

Ioana Chei:Because yeah, I often have parents in the practice that come and say, you know, my child lacks confidence, for example. And I always advise not to use labels, right? Don't tell them they're stubborn or they're a particular way. They will act like that if you continue to tell them that.

Mel Schenker:They pick everything up.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, anything negative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

Ioana Chei:But that's also...

Ioana Chei:We do the same thing, right? If we tell ourselves we're stubborn, not only that we act like that, but our child sees that.

Mel Schenker:Yep, and that's how we'll act.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah, and models it, yeah.

Ioana Chei:And exactly. So we're models and it's not important just what we say, but how we react and what we say to ourselves matters.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah. Well, I have been on that journey myself in the last few years. I have one daughter, she's three and a half. And I have always been a bit critical of the way I look, and particularly after having four kids, my stomach still looks like a beach ball a bit. But I've accepted that that's just how it is. It's a bit stretched, all of that.

Mel Schenker:And I'm actually okay with it now, but a big part of it was because I had to be really careful with how I was talking about myself. Cause my daughter, she's got the curly red hair. She's like a little me in so many ways. And one of the days she's rubbing her belly and she's like, I'm so fat. And I was like, what? No, you're not. And this was back when she was nearly two. She wasn't even quite. And then,

Mel Schenker:And was like, no, you're not. And she's just like, mommy's so beautiful. Mommy said she's fat. And I'm just like, my gosh, I didn't even like, and I just did not think, I did not think it. Yeah. It was so eye opening for me. And from that moment, I didn't, I just did not talk like that about myself anymore because as much as I have things that I would love to improve.

Mel Schenker:Truth is, as I get older, I'm gonna look back on who I am now and I'm gonna go, I wish I just enjoyed what I've got now. Everything, I mean, apart from dealing with the flu right now, everything else is healthy and functioning and I can move well. And as I get older, they're gonna be things that I wish I could live again. And so I'm just really having to make the most of, you know what? Okay, I don't look like a supermodel, but I never did.

Ioana Chei:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:And who cares? I don't want that. I've got a great husband. I've got great children. And I want my daughter to be able to look at herself in the mirror and say, I'm pretty or I'm smart. I'm intelligent. Like I've got so much going for me. Like just whatever it is that she's thinking in that moment. I want her to be confident enough in herself. And that starts with me. So I've really had to work on myself because she's copying what she sees. Like if I say,

Ioana Chei:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:I look ugly and everyone around is saying, you look so much like mommy. Well, she's going to go, and mommy thinks she's ugly. So I'm ugly. Like it's just all this stuff that it's like, no, I'm not going to screw my daughter up like this. I'm not, will learn what I need to learn. I will work on myself because it's my problem, not hers. And yeah, that's been a really big journey. Thank you.

Ioana Chei:Hmm.

Ioana Chei:Yeah.

Ioana Chei:Congratulations, Mel, for that. Yeah, it's an awesome journey. yeah.

Mel Schenker:A huge thing. Yeah, still have my days, still have my days but yeah, yeah but I'm determined to at least do my part to help her not have the self-image issues that I had growing up so I just don't want, I just want her to see her for who she is and she is a really empathetic, very kind, caring little girl.

Ioana Chei:We all do.

Mel Schenker:And I just want her to see that, you know? So anyway, anyway, I've taken up enough.

Ioana Chei:That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah No, that's a good story. So yeah, because they mirror us right there little mirrors and We need to look into those meters if if we want to be good role models for them

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:Yeah.

Mel Schenker:That's it. And you got to confront it and it can be uncomfortable and difficult and really have to rewrite a lot of years of scripting going on in our head. There's a lot of rewriting, but it is possible. It is very possible. And now I'm comfortable enough. Like I went away on holidays a few weeks ago and I actually got in the pool with the kids in my bathers in the pool with the kids.

Mel Schenker:Which I haven't done since I was pretty much pregnant with my first child because I didn't like the way I looked. And this time around I was like, screw it, I'm getting in there with the kids. actually, I am how I am and I'm not gonna miss out on life because of it. And nobody, like no other friends or family that were around at the time thought twice, you know, it's not like I'm.

Mel Schenker:So big or so ugly or so, you know, it's all in my head. They didn't care. They're like, great, she's in with the kids, you know? So just life goes too quick. I'm just, I don't want to be on the sidelines anymore. Yeah. Well, I feel like I could talk to you forever. Except for the fact my voice will probably cut out before then. So I appreciate everyone that's stuck with me, even though I haven't sounded.

Ioana Chei:Definitely.

Ioana Chei:Yes. Good for you.

Ioana Chei:You

Mel Schenker:Very good on this episode, but how can people find you and get in touch with you if they're wanting a little bit more support, particularly with their children and wanting to understand a bit more.

Ioana Chei:They can find me on Instagram. That's at Ioana K. I can't spell it, but...

Mel Schenker:Yep. Details are in the description. I'll put the details in the description. That's fine. They could go to that for you.

Ioana Chei:Thank you.

Ioana Chei:Or by email at help at ioanachei.com. I can answer both and they can see a little bit about my work too and yeah, we can connect there.

Mel Schenker:Yep, easy. It'll be in the description.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, yeah, your Instagram page is great. It's so full of really good information and references, particularly with mindset and everything, as that is your main focus. But I think even just going there first, chances are you're going to find something that speaks to you. So check out her Instagram page first. Definitely.

Ioana Chei:Yeah, thank you.

Mel Schenker:Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Ioana. I really loved talking with you and getting to understand a little bit more about what you do, and especially the whole psychodrama thing. That was really cool. So thank you so much for coming on today.

Ioana Chei:It was a real pleasure, Mel. Thank you so much for having me and I hope to talk to you soon.

Mel Schenker:Yeah, definitely. We'll talk soon. Thank you.